Comments on: LDS 2nd Fastest Growing http://www.bloggernacle.org/lds-2cd-fastest-growing/ Sat, 26 Mar 2011 19:45:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Anchorage Activist http://www.bloggernacle.org/lds-2cd-fastest-growing/#comment-4702 Anchorage Activist Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:53:12 +0000 http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=359#comment-4702 First, a brief response to what Clark stated in comment #21. Another reason for the exodus out of California is abruptly changing demographics. The sight of 700,000 Latinos marching through Los Angeles, many carrying Mexican flags, and some with signs stating "Our Continent, Not Yours", is scaring people out of the state. And not just white people either, but responsible Californians of other races. This concern is justified; check the Mexica-Movement's website to see their hostile, racist, separatist agenda. http://www.mexica-movement.org Now, back to the central issue. Mormons who drift into activity aren't always in danger of apostasy. I've been inactive since 1969, but I still believe in the whole program. Enough of the Gospel remains in my heart to place bounds upon my fleshly appetites and prevent me from making destructive choices with lasting negative consequences. So many who fall away are still better off spiritually than they were before they became Mormons in the first place. Mormonism answers more of my questions and offers me more possibilities than the other denominations. The only reason I'm inactive is because I just don't fancy the routine of going to church and doing the same routines every week. I really can't get excited about listening to a 5-year old bear his testimony. But there's nothing wrong with the Church as far as I'm concerned, and i would never demand it change to personally suit me. I'm of the old school; when the Brethren speak (in their official capacities), the debate is over, because the thinking has been done. I may choose not to follow them, but I won't choose to debate them. First, a brief response to what Clark stated in comment #21. Another reason for the exodus out of California is abruptly changing demographics. The sight of 700,000 Latinos marching through Los Angeles, many carrying Mexican flags, and some with signs stating “Our Continent, Not Yours”, is scaring people out of the state. And not just white people either, but responsible Californians of other races. This concern is justified; check the Mexica-Movement’s website to see their hostile, racist, separatist agenda. http://www.mexica-movement.org

Now, back to the central issue. Mormons who drift into activity aren’t always in danger of apostasy. I’ve been inactive since 1969, but I still believe in the whole program. Enough of the Gospel remains in my heart to place bounds upon my fleshly appetites and prevent me from making destructive choices with lasting negative consequences. So many who fall away are still better off spiritually than they were before they became Mormons in the first place. Mormonism answers more of my questions and offers me more possibilities than the other denominations.

The only reason I’m inactive is because I just don’t fancy the routine of going to church and doing the same routines every week. I really can’t get excited about listening to a 5-year old bear his testimony. But there’s nothing wrong with the Church as far as I’m concerned, and i would never demand it change to personally suit me. I’m of the old school; when the Brethren speak (in their official capacities), the debate is over, because the thinking has been done. I may choose not to follow them, but I won’t choose to debate them.

]]> By: Clark Goble http://www.bloggernacle.org/lds-2cd-fastest-growing/#comment-4696 Clark Goble Tue, 11 Apr 2006 03:20:57 +0000 http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=359#comment-4696 Well, put like that, it has been the emphasis of the missionary program for more than 20 years. The whole "networking" was certainly emphasized in the training materials I got in the MTC on my mission back in '87, Well, put like that, it has been the emphasis of the missionary program for more than 20 years. The whole “networking” was certainly emphasized in the training materials I got in the MTC on my mission back in ’87,

]]> By: john f. http://www.bloggernacle.org/lds-2cd-fastest-growing/#comment-4685 john f. Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:00:22 +0000 http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=359#comment-4685 So we switch from an old-fashioned sales-oriented approach to proselyting to a more modern, network marketing approach? So we switch from an old-fashioned sales-oriented approach to proselyting to a more modern, network marketing approach?

]]> By: Clark Goble http://www.bloggernacle.org/lds-2cd-fastest-growing/#comment-4681 Clark Goble Mon, 10 Apr 2006 19:59:21 +0000 http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=359#comment-4681 John (#20), I agree they need to be preached to. However I think we all realize that missionaries often target the easy baptisms without concern of retention simply to get their statistics. They do the initial work without sufficiently preparing them to actually be a member. The Church has done better in this the past 10 years. But we still have a long ways to go. Without getting into an other discussion of the missionary program though, I tend to see the failure as primarily the members. We have to do better in <i>our</i> missionary work. Realistically tracting and the like simply are very inefficient methods of conversion and you're apt to have more problems with retention with those you do find. John (#20), I agree they need to be preached to. However I think we all realize that missionaries often target the easy baptisms without concern of retention simply to get their statistics. They do the initial work without sufficiently preparing them to actually be a member. The Church has done better in this the past 10 years. But we still have a long ways to go. Without getting into an other discussion of the missionary program though, I tend to see the failure as primarily the members. We have to do better in our missionary work. Realistically tracting and the like simply are very inefficient methods of conversion and you’re apt to have more problems with retention with those you do find.

]]> By: Clark Goble http://www.bloggernacle.org/lds-2cd-fastest-growing/#comment-4680 Clark Goble Mon, 10 Apr 2006 19:56:32 +0000 http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=359#comment-4680 There certainly have been a lot of people moving from California to Utah the past 10 years. But I think a lot of that has to do with jobs and cost of living. If you grew up in California, especially the bay area, the chances of you being able to find a job that would let you buy a home are pretty remote. Housing in most places in California are about 4 - 5x what they are in Utah. And Utah has a very hot job market right now. There certainly have been a lot of people moving from California to Utah the past 10 years. But I think a lot of that has to do with jobs and cost of living. If you grew up in California, especially the bay area, the chances of you being able to find a job that would let you buy a home are pretty remote. Housing in most places in California are about 4 – 5x what they are in Utah. And Utah has a very hot job market right now.

]]> By: john f. http://www.bloggernacle.org/lds-2cd-fastest-growing/#comment-4676 john f. Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:54:42 +0000 http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=359#comment-4676 JWR: I am wary of any approach that turns people into a means of accomplishing something else. To the extent that has been done, it is unfortunate. We need to view each individual, no matter how lowly, or "low quality" as you have said, as a son or daughter of God. As such, they are each infinitely valuable; their agency should be respected to the extent they have not violated just laws or damaged/injured other people. In my view, they deserve to be preached to and to be baptized as much as any others. This needs to be done through preaching the word and not through high-pressure sales or management techniques. Christal: whatever the merits of your other points of contention, I think that including baptism for the dead in your list is inaccurate. This is an example of the <a href="http://fowlesview.blogspot.com/2005/02/powerful-doctrine.html" rel="nofollow">powerful doctrine</a> that attracts people to the Restoration of the Gospel, rather than repelling them from it. My recollection from preaching the Gospel as a missionary, through the standardized six discussions, was that baptism for the dead was not shied away from by any stretch of the imagination, but was taught as a strong point of the work of the Prophet Joseph Smith. JWR: I am wary of any approach that turns people into a means of accomplishing something else. To the extent that has been done, it is unfortunate. We need to view each individual, no matter how lowly, or “low quality” as you have said, as a son or daughter of God. As such, they are each infinitely valuable; their agency should be respected to the extent they have not violated just laws or damaged/injured other people. In my view, they deserve to be preached to and to be baptized as much as any others. This needs to be done through preaching the word and not through high-pressure sales or management techniques.

Christal: whatever the merits of your other points of contention, I think that including baptism for the dead in your list is inaccurate. This is an example of the powerful doctrine that attracts people to the Restoration of the Gospel, rather than repelling them from it. My recollection from preaching the Gospel as a missionary, through the standardized six discussions, was that baptism for the dead was not shied away from by any stretch of the imagination, but was taught as a strong point of the work of the Prophet Joseph Smith.

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