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	<title>Comments on: No longer welcome at BYU?</title>
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		<title>By: Britney</title>
		<link>http://www.bloggernacle.org/no-longer-welcome-at-byu/#comment-22952</link>
		<dc:creator>Britney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Dec 2006 09:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=299#comment-22952</guid>
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		<title>By: queuno</title>
		<link>http://www.bloggernacle.org/no-longer-welcome-at-byu/#comment-5283</link>
		<dc:creator>queuno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Apr 2006 07:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=299#comment-5283</guid>
		<description>I know that this is a dormant thread, and maybe it&#039;s better to leave it that way (I get behind because the all the crap associated with my PhD program and the full-time job), but if anyone is still reading this, I wonder how Hinckley&#039;s comments at GC square with #51&#039;s demands?

Re BYU&#039;s hiring practices, I have a SIL who was caught up in the BYU machine -- she was recommended for hire and the administration squashed it.  Know what?  They -- and not the department -- were probably right (there were more than a few people with sighs of relief).  I have a brother teaching there now -- he was considered his department&#039;s golden child.  I don&#039;t know how to compare their relative merits within their own fields, but he *fits* the *culture* better.  And we give very short shrift to the value of cultural fit at an academic institution.  Just try being a white, middle-aged, male Christian in the English department at Berkeley.  ;)

You can say whatever you want about BYU&#039;s practices, and alleged latent racism within the Twelve, bla bla bla, but it comes down to this:  People aren&#039;t asked to leave BYU because they are brilliant educators and researchers with just a touch of an irrascible streak.  People are asked to leave BYU because they have been measured and found wanting, either as educators or researchers.  It&#039;s really that simple in the final analysis.   It&#039;s one thing to piss off the administration.  It&#039;s another thing to leave yourself wide open for dismissal under traditional grounds.  Farr and Knowlton, anyone?  They had other problems without shooting themselves in the foot.  [And adjuncts -- they&#039;re basically screwed, and if Dr. Smith was truly an adjunct like has been reported here and elsewhere, then he understood his was not a permanent gig.] 

My judgment means little in the final analysis, but I just don&#039;t see how BYU losing Dr. Smith is all that big of a loss to either party.  BYU will move on with its stated mission, and Dr. Smith will feast on his stories of being booted by BYU (the AAUP will probably give him an award to put on his CV!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that this is a dormant thread, and maybe it&#8217;s better to leave it that way (I get behind because the all the crap associated with my PhD program and the full-time job), but if anyone is still reading this, I wonder how Hinckley&#8217;s comments at GC square with #51&#8242;s demands?</p>
<p>Re BYU&#8217;s hiring practices, I have a SIL who was caught up in the BYU machine &#8212; she was recommended for hire and the administration squashed it.  Know what?  They &#8212; and not the department &#8212; were probably right (there were more than a few people with sighs of relief).  I have a brother teaching there now &#8212; he was considered his department&#8217;s golden child.  I don&#8217;t know how to compare their relative merits within their own fields, but he *fits* the *culture* better.  And we give very short shrift to the value of cultural fit at an academic institution.  Just try being a white, middle-aged, male Christian in the English department at Berkeley.  <img src='http://www.bloggernacle.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>You can say whatever you want about BYU&#8217;s practices, and alleged latent racism within the Twelve, bla bla bla, but it comes down to this:  People aren&#8217;t asked to leave BYU because they are brilliant educators and researchers with just a touch of an irrascible streak.  People are asked to leave BYU because they have been measured and found wanting, either as educators or researchers.  It&#8217;s really that simple in the final analysis.   It&#8217;s one thing to piss off the administration.  It&#8217;s another thing to leave yourself wide open for dismissal under traditional grounds.  Farr and Knowlton, anyone?  They had other problems without shooting themselves in the foot.  [And adjuncts -- they're basically screwed, and if Dr. Smith was truly an adjunct like has been reported here and elsewhere, then he understood his was not a permanent gig.] </p>
<p>My judgment means little in the final analysis, but I just don&#8217;t see how BYU losing Dr. Smith is all that big of a loss to either party.  BYU will move on with its stated mission, and Dr. Smith will feast on his stories of being booted by BYU (the AAUP will probably give him an award to put on his CV!).</p>
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		<title>By: BrianJ</title>
		<link>http://www.bloggernacle.org/no-longer-welcome-at-byu/#comment-3755</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=299#comment-3755</guid>
		<description>Anyone interested in the history and current role of blacks in the LDS Church should contact the Genesis Group (http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/). This is the group (sometimes called branch) that operates officially under the direction of the Church and &quot;was established to meet the needs of Black members....&quot; If you live in the SLC area (I do not) you are doubly lucky, because you can attend their meetings, regardless of your race. Wherever you live, consider inviting them (or asking that your stake presidency invite them) to give a fireside in your home stake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone interested in the history and current role of blacks in the LDS Church should contact the Genesis Group (<a href="http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/</a>). This is the group (sometimes called branch) that operates officially under the direction of the Church and &#8220;was established to meet the needs of Black members&#8230;.&#8221; If you live in the SLC area (I do not) you are doubly lucky, because you can attend their meetings, regardless of your race. Wherever you live, consider inviting them (or asking that your stake presidency invite them) to give a fireside in your home stake.</p>
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		<title>By: richard</title>
		<link>http://www.bloggernacle.org/no-longer-welcome-at-byu/#comment-3750</link>
		<dc:creator>richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 20:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=299#comment-3750</guid>
		<description>I still think its funny having been born in Utah to see how the areas where African-Americans are few in number deal with race issues concerning African-Americans. Not that there still are&#039;nt problems in Mississippi and Tennessee but the entire history of how whites dealt with blacks extends from sea to shining sea. It is past time for change. I&#039;m happy to see the church move on the issue but unhappy with the lack of speed.
I remember all the western cities and states that resisted a Martin Luther King day. I have always encountered more racism our in Arizona and Utah. Sorry, don&#039;t mean to anger anyone but I have lived out West and I have lived here in the South. 
In the late 90s, the church held meetings to deal with the priesthood ban questions. Any formal conclusions and statements were not released. Does anyone know what became of these meetings?

-Richard in northwest Florida</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still think its funny having been born in Utah to see how the areas where African-Americans are few in number deal with race issues concerning African-Americans. Not that there still are&#8217;nt problems in Mississippi and Tennessee but the entire history of how whites dealt with blacks extends from sea to shining sea. It is past time for change. I&#8217;m happy to see the church move on the issue but unhappy with the lack of speed.<br />
I remember all the western cities and states that resisted a Martin Luther King day. I have always encountered more racism our in Arizona and Utah. Sorry, don&#8217;t mean to anger anyone but I have lived out West and I have lived here in the South.<br />
In the late 90s, the church held meetings to deal with the priesthood ban questions. Any formal conclusions and statements were not released. Does anyone know what became of these meetings?</p>
<p>-Richard in northwest Florida</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.bloggernacle.org/no-longer-welcome-at-byu/#comment-3704</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 05:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=299#comment-3704</guid>
		<description>Because I&#039;m too lazy to reiterate my views on this from scratch, I will paste my comments from an email list that I participate in ...

&quot;I have not met Darron Smith, so I cannot comment on how &quot;reasonable&quot; or &quot;circumspect&quot; he appears to those who meet him.  Also, my computer has no speakers, so I can&#039;t listen to the link provided, nor can I yet find on the internet a synopsis of what has happened at BYU.  Thus, I express no opinion (yet) on Brother Smith&#039;s firing.
 
What I can comment on, however, is my reaction to Brother Smith&#039;s essay in &quot;Black and Mormon,&quot; as well as a presentation he gave at Sunstone a few years ago.  I was, to put it mildly, very unimpressed.  Smith&#039;s presentation consisted of a bunch of warmed-over cliches about how white people just can&#039;t understand Black people (which is usually a euphemism for &quot;I can&#039;t explain my position convincingly, so I&#039;ll drum up an ideological reason why I shouldn&#039;t have to!&quot;), and I was left with the distinct impression that he was trying too hard to be an LDS version of Cornel West.  His &quot;Unpacking Whiteness in Zion&quot; was clearly the weakest essay in the &quot;Black and Mormon&quot; volume he edited, and his interpretation of some of his and his wife&#039;s Church experiences were ridiculous on their face.  Julie at T&amp;S wrote a book review about this some time ago, and Brother Smith participated in the comments very briefly.  He was completely unwilling (or unable) to engage any of the substantive critiques leveled at him, which was kind of pathetic.
 
Why do I mention all this?  Because I am someone who has felt very strongly for many years that the LDS Church&#039;s legacy of priesthood exclusion (and its accompanying racist rationales) is a complete embarrassment, and it is one of the few things that has, at times, made me ashamed to claim I&#039;m a Mormon.  I have read most of the literature on this topic voraciously; I love all of Armand Mauss&#039; and Lester Bush&#039;s stuff; I feel strongly that the Church should publicly repudiate the racist rationales that were used to prop up the old priesthood ban, and that still serve to perpetuate racism among some of the membership (even though I&#039;m sure the Church never will); I imagine that Brother Smith and I would probably agree on a whole lot of things.  However, none of this changes the simple fact that Smith&#039;s output on the Mormon &quot;race&quot; issue (at least the parts that I have seen) has been completely unimpressive.  I hope Brother Mauss&#039; recent contributions will continue to have influence, and that Brother Smith&#039;s will fade into obscurity.
 
That said, I reiterate that I don&#039;t know anything about the circumstances of Smith&#039;s firing.  I have been up in arms about various BYU firings in the past (Knowlton, Farr, etc.), and am open to being so again.  We&#039;ll see.&quot;
 
Aaron B</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because I&#8217;m too lazy to reiterate my views on this from scratch, I will paste my comments from an email list that I participate in &#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;I have not met Darron Smith, so I cannot comment on how &#8220;reasonable&#8221; or &#8220;circumspect&#8221; he appears to those who meet him.  Also, my computer has no speakers, so I can&#8217;t listen to the link provided, nor can I yet find on the internet a synopsis of what has happened at BYU.  Thus, I express no opinion (yet) on Brother Smith&#8217;s firing.</p>
<p>What I can comment on, however, is my reaction to Brother Smith&#8217;s essay in &#8220;Black and Mormon,&#8221; as well as a presentation he gave at Sunstone a few years ago.  I was, to put it mildly, very unimpressed.  Smith&#8217;s presentation consisted of a bunch of warmed-over cliches about how white people just can&#8217;t understand Black people (which is usually a euphemism for &#8220;I can&#8217;t explain my position convincingly, so I&#8217;ll drum up an ideological reason why I shouldn&#8217;t have to!&#8221;), and I was left with the distinct impression that he was trying too hard to be an LDS version of Cornel West.  His &#8220;Unpacking Whiteness in Zion&#8221; was clearly the weakest essay in the &#8220;Black and Mormon&#8221; volume he edited, and his interpretation of some of his and his wife&#8217;s Church experiences were ridiculous on their face.  Julie at T&amp;S wrote a book review about this some time ago, and Brother Smith participated in the comments very briefly.  He was completely unwilling (or unable) to engage any of the substantive critiques leveled at him, which was kind of pathetic.</p>
<p>Why do I mention all this?  Because I am someone who has felt very strongly for many years that the LDS Church&#8217;s legacy of priesthood exclusion (and its accompanying racist rationales) is a complete embarrassment, and it is one of the few things that has, at times, made me ashamed to claim I&#8217;m a Mormon.  I have read most of the literature on this topic voraciously; I love all of Armand Mauss&#8217; and Lester Bush&#8217;s stuff; I feel strongly that the Church should publicly repudiate the racist rationales that were used to prop up the old priesthood ban, and that still serve to perpetuate racism among some of the membership (even though I&#8217;m sure the Church never will); I imagine that Brother Smith and I would probably agree on a whole lot of things.  However, none of this changes the simple fact that Smith&#8217;s output on the Mormon &#8220;race&#8221; issue (at least the parts that I have seen) has been completely unimpressive.  I hope Brother Mauss&#8217; recent contributions will continue to have influence, and that Brother Smith&#8217;s will fade into obscurity.</p>
<p>That said, I reiterate that I don&#8217;t know anything about the circumstances of Smith&#8217;s firing.  I have been up in arms about various BYU firings in the past (Knowlton, Farr, etc.), and am open to being so again.  We&#8217;ll see.&#8221;</p>
<p>Aaron B</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.bloggernacle.org/no-longer-welcome-at-byu/#comment-3694</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=299#comment-3694</guid>
		<description>Im not &quot;touting&quot; diversity as much as I am trying to explain why such diversity is practically nonexistent. I may be a cynic but reality is reality. Attack my arguments, not the tone used to convey the information. I find that most LDS believers are neutered and shamed into towing the party line or else face expulsion, revision or disassociation. 

Many have died putting truth before politics and social expediency and we are the recipients and benefactors of those who gave up life and limb to say the world is round, we just might be descendents of apes not adam and a host of many other positions that have advanced our modern world and given us longer life expectancies and other miracle technological break throughs. How easy we forget where mankind once was and where we are today. 

Again, its basic stuff...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Im not &#8220;touting&#8221; diversity as much as I am trying to explain why such diversity is practically nonexistent. I may be a cynic but reality is reality. Attack my arguments, not the tone used to convey the information. I find that most LDS believers are neutered and shamed into towing the party line or else face expulsion, revision or disassociation. </p>
<p>Many have died putting truth before politics and social expediency and we are the recipients and benefactors of those who gave up life and limb to say the world is round, we just might be descendents of apes not adam and a host of many other positions that have advanced our modern world and given us longer life expectancies and other miracle technological break throughs. How easy we forget where mankind once was and where we are today. </p>
<p>Again, its basic stuff&#8230;</p>
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