This generation is not about church.
That’s a quote in a Get Religion post entitled “Smells like teen spirit.” The post starts out with a link to and discussion of a recent NY Times article, “Evangelicals fear the loss of their teenagers.” It’s getting a lot of coverage around the blogosphere, although the GR post suggests the predicted 4% retention figure cited in the article (the percentage of Evangelical teenagers who will supposedly remain active Evangelicals as adults) was just misinformation.
Mormons and Evangelicals cover the same demographics. So if Evangelicals are having a problem with their teenagers, so are Mormons. The same media pundit that gave the first quote also said, “The phenomenon may not be that young evangelicals are abandoning their faith, but that they are abandoning the institutional church.” And Mormons are more institutional than Evangelicals. Teenagers leaving their parent’s church to find their own version of spirituality? Sounds like the 1960s all over again.
“Mormons and Evangelicals cover the same demographics. So if Evangelicals are having a problem with their teenagers, so are Mormons.”
Not only is the first statement not entirely true, but the second represents a completely unjustified leap in logic.
We recently had the ‘teen retention’ conversation over at T & S and actual, real info from Church headquarters indicates that we are retaining far, far more than that.
Comment by Julie M. Smith — October 7, 2006 @ 7:46 am
I agree with Julie Smith. I don’t think we’re losing our teens anywhere close to the rate Evangelicals are. Perhaps they ought to stop the “megachurches”, the “rock concerts” and focus on individual care and bringing the Spirit into people’s homes. It is ironic because Evangelicals blame society today for not accepting old time values, but then they try modern techniques when the good old fashioned “bring the Spirit” works still, in any age with any people.
Comment by Dan — October 7, 2006 @ 8:00 am
Moreover, I think they need to stop infusing religion and politics if they want to keep their teens active in church. Sometimes politics can get very ugly. You NEVER want your religion to be tainted by that ugliness, as Evangelicals are currently experiencing these days.
Comment by Dan — October 7, 2006 @ 8:01 am
Dan –
I’m not sure I follow. Black churches constantly mix religions and politics (especially in church meetings), and they have decent retention rates, as far as I can tell.
Why is it only predominately white evangelical churches are suppossed to keep politics out of their religion?
Comment by Ivan Wolfe — October 7, 2006 @ 8:22 am
One independent source of information about young people and religion is The National Study of Youth and Religion, funded by Lilly Endowment Inc., and under the direction of Dr. Christian Smith, Professor of Sociology at the University of Notre Dame, and Dr. Lisa Pearce, Assistant Professor of Sociology at The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
They are at
http://www.youthandreligion.org/
Their article (available at the website) entitled “Mapping American Adolescent Religious Participation” suggests that attendance rates for Mormon teens are higher than for many Evangelical groups. They haven’t finished the longitudinal part of the research, to see whether those youth continue with activity into adulthood.
Comment by Naismith — October 7, 2006 @ 9:11 am
I think in the long run the Church is going to retain more people than Evangelicals. Evangelicals try really hard to make church exciting, fun, and relevant for young people. They have pump out hip t-shirts with references to Jesus, they put on skateboarding contests for Jesus, ect. Kids go for it because it’s cool.
There’s a great King of the HIll episode where Bobby Hill joins a new youth group. Hank, old fashion guy as he is, is not happy about what Bobby’s learning. Some highlights from the show:
BOBBY: Anybody mind if I say Grace tonight?
HANK: Sure, Bobby.
BOBBY: I wanna give a shout-out to the man who makes it all happen. Props be to you for this most bountiful meal that sits before us. Okay, check it, God, you’ve got skillz. You represent in these vegetables and in this napkin and in the dirt that grows the grain that makes the garlic breadsticks that are on this table today, yes-shizz.
HANK: Okay, Bobby, God appreciates the support, but I’m sure He wouldn’t want the pot roast to get cold. Now let’s wrap it up.
BOBBY: Sure thing. Thanks, J-Man. Peace.
BOBBY: And then Cain was all like “I ain’t s’posed to be lookin’ out for my bro, yo.”
LUANNE: I didn’t know that was in Genesis.
PASTOR K: Dude, you don’t have to act or dress a certain way for God. You can hang with him any way, anywhere. Don’t you think Jesus is right here in this half-pipe?
HANK: I’m sure he’s a lot of places he doesn’t want to be.
HANK: Can’t you see you’re not making Christianity better, you’re just making rock n’ roll worse.
PASTOR K: You people are all alike. You look at us and think we’re freaks. Come on, even Jesus had long hair.
HANK: Only because I wasn’t his dad.
The best part is at the end. Hank makes a point why he’s so against Bobby doing the cool, hip Christian thing.
BOBBY: When I turn 18, I’m going to do whatever I want for the Lord. Tattoos, piercings, you name it.
HANK: Well, I’ll take that chance. Come here, there’s something I want you to see. (Hank takes down a box from the shelf and opens it up) Remember this?
BOBBY: My beanbag buddy? Oh, man, I can’t believe I collected those things. They’re so lame.
HANK: You didn’t think so five years ago. And how about your virtual pet? You used to carry this thing everywhere. Then you got tired of it, forgot to feed it, and it died.
BOBBY (looks at a photo of himself in a Ninja Turtles costume): I look like such a dork.
HANK: I know how you feel. I never thought that “Members Only” jacket would go out of style, but it did. I know you think stuff you’re doing now is cool, but in a few years you’re going to think it’s lame. And I don’t want the Lord to end up in this box.
Sure, our Church is boring. But you’ll never see kids confusing it for a new exciting trend that can end up in a box in the garage.
Amen, Brother Hill.
Comment by Brett — October 7, 2006 @ 9:33 am
Brett, totally awesome. That is one of my favorite episodes from one of my favorite shows.
Another great part was when Bobby was on stage with the band, “witnessing” through their music. Bobby has the microphone and get the crowd worked up.
BOBBY: I say holy, you say ghost!
BOBBY: Holy!
CROWD: Ghost!
BOBBY: Holy!
CROWD: Ghost!
Comment by Mark IV — October 7, 2006 @ 10:29 am
Julie, your excellent post at T&S (“Inactivity and Rumors of Inactivity“) prompted a nice discussion. But I think it supports the idea that there is, in fact, concern about the retention of LDS teenagers, not that it is someone else’s problem. I’m obviously not suggesting the supposed 4% retention rate for Evangelicals (which I note in this post is probably misinformation) applies to Mormon teens, just that if it’s a problem for them, it’s a problem for us, too.
Incidentally, Comment #19 in your T&S thread, quoting information from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism article “Activity in the Church,” also highlighted the teenage years as the period of greatest risk for LDS inactivity. And I think the personal experience at the local level of most Mormons supports that view: most young singles have a hard time fitting into the LDS program, which is geared toward familes (i.e., a man and one wife, legally married) and kids (Primary, YM/YW). The real “program” once a Mormon teen gets out of the youth programs is to go on a mission and then get married. Or at least to get married.
My point in the post is that there’s a generational change afoot. One surprising social trend of the eighties and nineties was that teenagers and youth were surprisingly religious, a swing away from the anti-institutional trend of the sex, drugs, and rock’n'roll generation of the sixties. But now the pendulum seems to be swinging back and teens are again shying away from institutional involvement. Think of it as updated Sheilaism — with cell phones and IM, teens don’t need institutions (including churches) to get together, they can network on their own. And they’re very good at it.
Comment by Dave — October 7, 2006 @ 11:13 am
“But I think it supports the idea that there is, in fact, concern about the retention of LDS teenagers, not that it is someone else’s problem.”
I don’t disagree with this. It is true that we should be concerned about retention; I just didn’t think that framing it as (1) a demographic issue and (2) as related to Evangelicals is the best way to go about it. One reason for that: the expectation of a mission and temple marriage places a HUGE emphasis on activity in the church during these years–evangelicals don’t have anything similar and I think there is (in some circles, at least) an understanding that the 20s might be a spiritually sluggish time, but that the person will settle down and re-activate when they have a family. Because this is, obviously, very different for LDS, I don’t think comparisons with evangelicals are particularly useful in helping us understand and respond to the problem.
Comment by Julie M. Smith — October 7, 2006 @ 12:28 pm
I don’t know–that’s not what I am seeing on the ground. On any given activity night, you’ll find at least one non-LDS young woman in attendance at our ward. There are several who come at least once a month, and while they are partly coming to hang with their friends, they also seem to be attracted by what they find there.
And in the past few years, we’ve always had youth who beg/nag their less-active parents to bring them to church.
Comment by Naismith — October 7, 2006 @ 1:06 pm
Ivan,
#4:
well, I wasn’t targeting “white” evangelical churches, personally. I think that all churches should stay neutral when it comes to politics, like our church does. Our church rarely speaks out on any issue, letting its members decide for themselves which party and which candidate best fits their own morality. Evangelical churches have attempted, over the past 20 years, to mix their religion to the Republican party, to short-term gains, but ill effect long term. I think that their mix of religion and politics are driving people away from their churches (much as my time in Utah nearly drove me away from the church due to the political beliefs of members there, who thought that if you didn’t agree with their political views, you weren’t a good Mormon).
As to the race issue, I haven’t studied that enough to make an informed opinion.
Comment by Dan — October 7, 2006 @ 2:52 pm
Brett,
Excellent point. The real strength and consistency of our church is that we bring the Spirit into our meetings, which has a greater effect upon our souls than any T-shirt, megachurch with a professional speaker, or rock concert could ever do. Real conversion does not happen without the Spirit present.
Comment by Dan — October 7, 2006 @ 2:55 pm
There are studies though that suggest the young are becoming more religious. I was listening to a show on this Friday. Some are even suggesting we may be on the cusp of a fourth great awakening. (Ala what Joseph Smith experienced) Admittedly some of this may be superficial. But while I couldn’t find the statistics the author quoted some surprisingly high figures on how many college students regularly attend church services. Especially compared to figures of the last 40 years.
Comment by Clark Goble — October 7, 2006 @ 2:56 pm
I think that the demographic that has the hardest hit is single Young adults over the age of 18. The Church has stated that in the US the activity rates for stakes are between 8% and 16% with and average of 12% for this demographic. Though, I personally know of a stake where it is 6%. Teenagers parents at least have some sort of say in their activity. Imagine what it must be in France? 1%, maybe.
Comment by J. Stapley — October 7, 2006 @ 8:05 pm
J. Stapley,
I would be interested to see statistics comparing activity in church in Europe vs America. I don’t know about France, but in Romania (where I’m from, and where I went on my mission), the youth are pretty active.
Comment by Dan — October 7, 2006 @ 8:28 pm
I imgine that youth activity tracks pretty well with family activity in the Church.
Comment by J. Stapley — October 7, 2006 @ 8:51 pm
Brett,
I just watched that episode for the first time last night, and I thought it was great. There are so many worse things for teenagers to do than “worship” as Bobby’s new friends did, but as discussed here and as Hank taught Bobby, that approach to worship does not lead to a lifetime committment to the Gospel.
James
Comment by James — October 7, 2006 @ 8:59 pm
J. Stapley,
Some youth in Romania are active despite their parents inactivity, and others are active even though they are the only members of their family to be in the church. But I bet it is very different than a place like France, where the church has been there for a long time. We’ve only begun in Romania just in 1991.
Comment by Dan — October 8, 2006 @ 5:37 am
I haven’t seen the study on youth becoming more religious, but I’ve heard it cited in a number of places, in particular, at a Church Regional Employment Training meeting. But here was how the study was presented: That the youth were attending more “church”, but that they were not attending the church of their fathers and that they were more interested in one-church-fits-all nondenominational types (“everyone’s OK”).
Could it be that the youth are more interested in the “i’m-OK-you’re-OK-gay-marriage-is-OK” types of rah-rah churches and those numbers are skewing the data.
At any rate, I remember seeing a study when I was at BYU (so this was probably 12 years ago) that said that 33% of the 12-year-olds in the Church would end up going on a mission. At the time, the Zoobie sentiment was “wow, how horrible!” I remember thinking, “hey, 33% ain’t that bad…”.
Comment by queuno — October 8, 2006 @ 4:26 pm
The stats J. Stapley cites are typical in the USA. We’ve lost a generation and those in denial have their heads in the sand. It’s no surprise to me the way we chase sinners from the church. My guess is the GA’s won’t react until the expected babies of the lost generation don’t show up on the rolls, and that will be way too late. It’s sad that the church will have to shrink a lot before some will wake up and smell the diet coke.
Comment by Steve EM — October 8, 2006 @ 7:12 pm
Queuno:
I’m not sure where I got this stat, but I read somewhere recently that 1 in 6 eligible young men are on missions. I think it was based on there being 300k 19-21 year old males in the church, but can’t say for sure. There would be outliers of course, as I started my mission at the age of 23.
Comment by MW* — October 9, 2006 @ 9:35 am
What I can’t get a real sense of is whether this is a real increase in inactivity or just that Evangelicals have started to do a better job tracking what happens to people? I have the sense that retention of young adults has been a problem for churches for a long time.
It could be getting worse, of course. Evangelical churches have more hip-hop style youth programs for teens than they used to and possibly these have less staying power, as some commenters suggest. Also, in our culture the 20s are increasingly an prolonged adolescence-without-parents so perhaps its not surprising that church attendance takes a big hit during that time.
Comment by Adam Greenwood — October 12, 2006 @ 7:07 am