Comments on: Too many of them, too few of us http://www.bloggernacle.org/too-many-of-them-too-few-of-us-2/ Sat, 26 Mar 2011 19:45:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: ed http://www.bloggernacle.org/too-many-of-them-too-few-of-us-2/#comment-727 ed Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:59:53 +0000 http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=135#comment-727 J. Stapley, Whether children are an asset for an individual is a different question than whether they are an asset for society as a whole. My extra kid may be good for me, but he may also drive down the wages your kids can earn. Most economic historians believe that living standards among agrarian workers improved significantly in Europe after the population was significantly reduced by several waves of bubonic plague. 19th century America was very unusual in that there was a lot of underpopulated land to be settled. Another interesting fact of historical demography that fertility rates begin falling sharply in France around the beginning of the 19th century, decades before they fell in the rest of Europe. This despite the fact that France was primarilly rural. It was the most populous country in Europe, but far from being the most industrialized or urbanized. It's still a bit of a mystery what drives these things. J. Stapley,

Whether children are an asset for an individual is a different question than whether they are an asset for society as a whole. My extra kid may be good for me, but he may also drive down the wages your kids can earn.

Most economic historians believe that living standards among agrarian workers improved significantly in Europe after the population was significantly reduced by several waves of bubonic plague. 19th century America was very unusual in that there was a lot of underpopulated land to be settled.

Another interesting fact of historical demography that fertility rates begin falling sharply in France around the beginning of the 19th century, decades before they fell in the rest of Europe. This despite the fact that France was primarilly rural. It was the most populous country in Europe, but far from being the most industrialized or urbanized. It’s still a bit of a mystery what drives these things.

]]> By: J. Stapley http://www.bloggernacle.org/too-many-of-them-too-few-of-us-2/#comment-706 J. Stapley Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:58:09 +0000 http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=135#comment-706 I'm pretty uneducated (sadly) on this topic. I have always tied birth rate not only to the strength of the economy, but also to the type. Basically, like nineteenth century America, children are an economic asset in agrarian societies. In information based societies, children are an economic liability. There are exceptions of course; China for one - population limitation is enforced despite the agrarian nature of the bulk of their population. While contraception is available in free and economically advanced societies, it seems that contraceptives without economic development is just cutting out an additional resource from developing economies, no? Or, are these societies not agrarian anymore? Or am I just confused? I’m pretty uneducated (sadly) on this topic. I have always tied birth rate not only to the strength of the economy, but also to the type. Basically, like nineteenth century America, children are an economic asset in agrarian societies. In information based societies, children are an economic liability. There are exceptions of course; China for one – population limitation is enforced despite the agrarian nature of the bulk of their population.

While contraception is available in free and economically advanced societies, it seems that contraceptives without economic development is just cutting out an additional resource from developing economies, no? Or, are these societies not agrarian anymore? Or am I just confused?

]]> By: Clark Goble http://www.bloggernacle.org/too-many-of-them-too-few-of-us-2/#comment-701 Clark Goble Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:00:45 +0000 http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=135#comment-701 John regarding 3rd world nations, I think the one issue that really hurts developed countries is the socialized programs. i.e. who pays for retirement, for social security, for medicare when they were designed around increasing growth. That's less of an issue in the 3rd world. Admittedly that's because of the horrible status of people there. But frankly from a demographics perspective people die early and don't have social programs benefiting them in the same way. So I'm not at all convinced that lowering the birth rate would be bad. Please note that I'm not suggesting massive lowering. But I think it unarguable that many in these nations get pregnant far too young and have more children than they are able to support. It seems to me that convincing women to put off children long enough so as to become educated and have a family career is just an inherently obviously wise thing to do. I don't see why that need entail only a maintainance birth rate of two children. Especially given that the death rate in these countries is so high due to infant mortality, disease and especially HIV. John regarding 3rd world nations, I think the one issue that really hurts developed countries is the socialized programs. i.e. who pays for retirement, for social security, for medicare when they were designed around increasing growth. That’s less of an issue in the 3rd world. Admittedly that’s because of the horrible status of people there. But frankly from a demographics perspective people die early and don’t have social programs benefiting them in the same way. So I’m not at all convinced that lowering the birth rate would be bad.

Please note that I’m not suggesting massive lowering. But I think it unarguable that many in these nations get pregnant far too young and have more children than they are able to support.

It seems to me that convincing women to put off children long enough so as to become educated and have a family career is just an inherently obviously wise thing to do. I don’t see why that need entail only a maintainance birth rate of two children. Especially given that the death rate in these countries is so high due to infant mortality, disease and especially HIV.

]]> By: john fowles http://www.bloggernacle.org/too-many-of-them-too-few-of-us-2/#comment-698 john fowles Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:56:54 +0000 http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=135#comment-698 I should add that I think that "responsible family planning" is a good thing and is what most couples probably do anyway, discussing with each other if and when they should have their next child. My impression from the show, however, was that this is not the sense in which "responsible family planning" was used. Rather, it was used somewhat euphemistically to mean "we (in developed countries) should be teaching people in LDCs that they should limit their reproduction through contraception to at most replacement level (i.e. two kids per couple). This is something that is not so obviously a good thing and that is why I wonder if it is the right solution, or even beneficial, necessarily, for countries that are in the process of development. I should add that I think that “responsible family planning” is a good thing and is what most couples probably do anyway, discussing with each other if and when they should have their next child. My impression from the show, however, was that this is not the sense in which “responsible family planning” was used. Rather, it was used somewhat euphemistically to mean “we (in developed countries) should be teaching people in LDCs that they should limit their reproduction through contraception to at most replacement level (i.e. two kids per couple). This is something that is not so obviously a good thing and that is why I wonder if it is the right solution, or even beneficial, necessarily, for countries that are in the process of development.

]]> By: Clark Goble http://www.bloggernacle.org/too-many-of-them-too-few-of-us-2/#comment-696 Clark Goble Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:05:01 +0000 http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=135#comment-696 John, I think that many of the poor are unable to take care of the children they have. I say that after having spent a lot of time among the poor. It's not an issue of X-box or the like. It's an issue of basic needs. Further, by waiting to have kids and only having the number of kids you can support, you make your chance to be stable unlikely. I'm not saying don't have kids. Just that if you wait a little - until your late 20's, you're much more likely to be successful <i>and</i> have the same number of kids. John, I think that many of the poor are unable to take care of the children they have. I say that after having spent a lot of time among the poor. It’s not an issue of X-box or the like. It’s an issue of basic needs. Further, by waiting to have kids and only having the number of kids you can support, you make your chance to be stable unlikely. I’m not saying don’t have kids. Just that if you wait a little – until your late 20′s, you’re much more likely to be successful and have the same number of kids.

]]> By: Kurt http://www.bloggernacle.org/too-many-of-them-too-few-of-us-2/#comment-692 Kurt Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:26:55 +0000 http://www.bloggernacle.org/?p=135#comment-692 The problem isnt quantity, its quality. The problem isnt quantity, its quality.

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